Welby: I forgive serial abuser John Smyth
Justin Welby has told the BBC he forgives a serial abuser at the heart of a scandal that led to his resignation as Archbishop of Canterbury.
In his first interview since quitting in November last year, Welby said his forgiveness of John Smyth – arguably the most prolific abuser associated with the Church of England – was “irrelevant” and it was more important to help victims “rebuild their lives”.
Smyth, who died in 2018, attacked more than 100 boys and young men in the UK and Africa over decades.
A damning 2024 review found Welby “could and should” have done more to bring Smyth to justice, which the former archbishop said he feels a “deep sense of personal failure” over.
Speaking to the BBC’s Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg, Welby said there had been “absolute failure” on Smyth and:
- Said he was “profoundly ashamed” of a speech he gave shortly after resigning where he had made light of his exit
- Expressed frustration at not being able to get the Church’s governing body to introduce fully independent safeguarding or equality for women and gay couples
- Said it would be a “tragedy” for the Church to split between England and other parts of the Anglican communion
- Warned an increasingly diverse UK must create a “cohesive” society
Forgiveness
From the 1970s onwards, Smyth was a prominent figure in a Church-linked movement, and used his position to inflict sustained beatings for his own sexual gratification on boys and young men he would prey on at Christian camps and schools.
Smyth, who later lived in Zimbabwe and South Africa, continued to abuse after he left UK. But he never faced justice in the UK or abroad before he died, aged 77.
The 2024 Makin Report, external said his “brutal abuse” was “on an industrial scale” and concluded opportunities to investigate Smyth over his abuse were missed – including when evidence was presented to Welby in 2013.
Asked by the BBC if he would forgive Smyth, Welby said: “Yes. I think if he was alive and I saw him, but it’s not me he’s abused.
“He’s abused the victims and survivors. So whether I forgive or not is, to a large extent, irrelevant.”
Welby said it was more important for victims to be “cared for… liberated to rebuild their lives” by the Church than to speak about forgiveness.
Pressed on how victims might react, Welby said he would never suggest they should also forgive.
Asked whether he wanted to be forgiven by Smyth’s victims, Welby said: “Everyone wants to be forgiven but to demand forgiveness is to abuse again.”
While absolution is central to Welby’s lifelong faith, his forgiveness of Smyth may sit uncomfortably with some survivors, who have accused him of failing to engage with them.
One of Smyth’s victims, known as Graham – who made the 2013 complaint – told the BBC he would not forgive Welby.
He said: “I’ve said before that, if in 2017 he had contacted us, said ‘I will come and apologise to you personally, I am sorry, I messed up’, I would have forgiven him immediately – but he never has in those terms.”
Asked if he could ever forgive Welby, Graham said: “Not if he continues to blank us and refuses to tell us the truth. We’re the victims, we deserve to know what happened and we don’t yet.”
Responding to Welby saying that he was overwhelmed by the scale of allegations in the Church, Graham said: “You may be swamped by other cases but if this one wasn’t fairly close to the top of the pile, what was?”
He claimed the Church was still overwhelmed with cases and “is no better at dealing with them” now.
‘Profoundly ashamed’
Welby first met Smyth in the late 1970s at a Christian camp but has always insisted he did not become aware of any abuse allegation against Smyth until 2013.
The Makin Report said that was “unlikely”, even if the full picture was still unclear to Welby.
Asked about that finding, Welby said: “You can believe it or not, I did not have a clue.”
Pushed on why he did not do more while in office, Welby said police told him “under no circumstances are you to get involved because you will contaminate our enquiry”.
He added: “I should have pestered them to be honest, and I see that now.”
Earlier in the interview, Welby told the BBC he was “absolutely overwhelmed” by the scale of abuse allegations within the Church.
Mark Neuman 